PopTray keeps checking even if with Quick Checking enabled

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JP Kunze
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PopTray keeps checking even if with Quick Checking enabled

Post by JP Kunze » Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:13 am

Hi,

After checking once, PopTray keeps checking the messages in my account over and over again although I enabled Quick Checking in the Advanced Options menu.

What's going wrong?

Thanks,
Jan-Peter

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Rdsok
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Post by Rdsok » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:49 pm

I suspect this is not a bug but perhaps is a misunderstanding by you on what the Quick Check option does...

Let me quote the help file first...
When checking for new mail PopTrayU will use the POP3 UIDL command to quickly check the ids of all messages on the server. Only new messages identified will be downloaded. This speeds up checking significantly. Switch this option off if your mail server has problems with the UIDL command.


To reword that some.... Poptray and PoptrayU still have to access the server and get a list of the email's ID's, what differs here is that it doesn't need to download the headers/bodies again of the previously downloaded emails... it only does that for new emails.

The speed of your internet connection as well as how quickly the email server reacts will still play a role in how much of a difference this can make when Poptray or PoptrayU checks for new emails. Your email server also must support commands for UIDL... if it doesn't them Poptray and PoptrayU will still have to download the complete headers and/or bodies depending on your settings...

You may also want to ensure that "Remember viewed Messages" is enabled in the User Interface options since this is a related option.

JP Kunze
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Post by JP Kunze » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:14 pm

Hi,

Thanks for taking the trouble to look into this.
I'm sorry my description was a little inaccurate. What I was trying to say was that although I have Quick Checking enabled PopTray still _downloads_ the whole list of headers/bodies over and over and doesn't even pause between downloads.
I guess this is not the intended behavior...

And yes, "Remember viewed Messages" is enabled too.
To reword that some.... Poptray and PoptrayU still have to access the server and get a list of the email's ID's, what differs here is that it doesn't need to download the headers/bodies again of the previously downloaded emails... it only does that for new emails.

You may also want to ensure that "Remember viewed Messages" is enabled in the User Interface options since this is a related option.

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Post by Rdsok » Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:57 pm

I really didn't find your post/question inaccurate, poorly worded or any of that... I simply wanted to ensure you were not under any misunderstanding which is probably the most common reason for posts/reports such as the one you made... just covering the bases so to speak...

Speaking of covering the bases... here is some more.

First a repeat of what I said already... Your email server also must support commands for UIDL... if it doesn't them Poptray and PoptrayU will still have to download the complete headers and/or bodies depending on your settings... they only download the body IF you have enabled that option otherwise the body isn't downloaded until you preview the message.

To expand on that... if the email server doesn't support UIDL... then what you are reporting won't apply since that is beyond the control of the program ( it can't add support to the server ) and Poptray and PoptrayU will default back to downloading the headers etc.


There are some rare cases on certain email servers where the ID of the emails are changed each time the server is accessed. For a program such as Poptray... the emails would appear to be different even though they are not. Again, this is an odd situation and not seen often but does deserve consideration.

Unless Poptray is set to "Hide viewed messages" ... it will continue to list emails that exist on the server even when the UIDL is working properly. This is as designed.

When you make changes to any Poptray or PoptrayU settings... completely close the program and restart it. Many of their settings are in the computers active memory and are not reloaded until a full restart.

Ultimately... you may not be fully aware of what is happening during a download unless you use a program such as IPSniffer or similar to directly monitor the TCP/IP traffic ( ie the internet traffic ). What you perceive as the program redownloading may actually be it just relisting the email it already downloaded previously ( unless you have Hide viewed messages option enable )

I'm not trying to say that you are wrong... just that things may not be as you thought and I'm trying to list some of the POSSIBLE things that are going on... direct testing by monitoring the traffic is the only real way to know for certain.

JP Kunze
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Post by JP Kunze » Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:20 pm

Thanks for your long and detailed reply.
Rdsok wrote: Your email server also must support commands for UIDL... if it doesn't them Poptray and PoptrayU will still have to download the complete headers and/or bodies depending on your settings... they only download the body IF you have enabled that option otherwise the body isn't downloaded until you preview the message.
I am using the Yahoo! POP3 server and I read in some forums it doesn't support UIDL commands and in others that this was only a temporary glitch... so I am not sure.
I have only enabled loading message headers, not bodies, so the bodies aren't a problem. It's the fact that during every QuickCheck, PopTray downloads the full list of message headers from the server. It does seem to be a download since the status text bar says "Downloading xxx messages" and the green progress bar starts moving in from the left edge again.
Rdsok wrote: There are some rare cases on certain email servers where the ID of the emails are changed each time the server is accessed. For a program such as Poptray... the emails would appear to be different even though they are not. Again, this is an odd situation and not seen often but does deserve consideration.
Yes, I thought about that - but it would be a fairly recent change on the Yahoo! server as QuickCheck worked fine with it until a few days ago.
Rdsok wrote: Unless Poptray is set to "Hide viewed messages" ... it will continue to list emails that exist on the server even when the UIDL is working properly. This is as designed.
I have enabled the "Hide viewed messages" option now (hadn't used that option before) but it doesn't seem to have any effect since PopTray still gives me the full list of emails on the Yahoo server. This wouldn't bother me BTW since I was happy to see the entire list of emails before as long as email checking was quick and didn't involve a full download.
Rdsok wrote: When you make changes to any Poptray or PoptrayU settings... completely close the program and restart it. Many of their settings are in the computers active memory and are not reloaded until a full restart.
I didn't use that "restart method" before but now did with every change I made (including enabling eg the Hide Viewed messages option) so I am not sure if this is where the problem hides.
Rdsok wrote: Ultimately... you may not be fully aware of what is happening during a download unless you use a program such as IPSniffer or similar to directly monitor the TCP/IP traffic ( ie the internet traffic ). What you perceive as the program redownloading may actually be it just relisting the email it already downloaded previously ( unless you have Hide viewed messages option enable )
Would PopTray still indicate its Download operation the way I described above in that case?

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Post by Rdsok » Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:29 am

JP Kunze wrote: Would PopTray still indicate its Download operation the way I described above in that case?
I can't honestly say for two reasons, my internet connection is so quick that even when downloading headers it takes very little time and even so... Poptray and PoptrayU would still be downloading the email ID list so the wording would still be appropriate to use

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Post by JP Kunze » Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:00 pm

Hi,

It's me again. (I had contacted Yahoo! support meanwhile and they were a bit slow to respond at first, so that's why I was off.)

Now what I found out - independently of that - is that
a) PopTray can reach the Yahoo server without any problem and
b) Yahoo supports both of PopTray's UIDL features, Quick Checking and SafeDelete

At least this is what I see in the message box that comes up when you test an account, saying:

"hello from popgate-0.8.0.357900 pop005.mail.ir2.yahoo.com
Login OK
Message Count: 330
Quick Checking and Safe Delete (UIDL): Supported"

So based on that I would like to quickly run through the points again that you raised before:
Rdsok wrote: "Your email server also must support commands for UIDL..."
Yes, it seems it does.
Rdsok wrote:
There are some rare cases on certain email servers where the ID of the emails are changed each time the server is accessed. For a program such as Poptray... the emails would appear to be different even though they are not. Again, this is an odd situation and not seen often but does deserve consideration.
Yes, I'd like to look into that unless there are other, more likely options.
Rdsok wrote:
Unless Poptray is set to "Hide viewed messages" ... it will continue to list emails that exist on the server even when the UIDL is working properly. This is as designed.
PopTray is set to "Hide viewed messages".
Rdsok wrote:
When you make changes to any Poptray or PoptrayU settings... completely close the program and restart it. Many of their settings are in the computers active memory and are not reloaded until a full restart.
I do so after every change.
Rdsok wrote:
Ultimately... you may not be fully aware of what is happening during a download unless you use a program such as IPSniffer or similar to directly monitor the TCP/IP traffic ( ie the internet traffic ). What you perceive as the program redownloading may actually be it just relisting the email it already downloaded previously ( unless you have Hide viewed messages option enable )
Yes, I have Hide viewed messages enabled.
The funny thing is: It does seem to be doing downloads, not checks, and it's an entirely new behaviour that only changed this week. Before, PopTray would download the messages from the server, pause and display the message list and then go on to do a quick check regularly at the set interval. It never did a second or subsequent download after the first one, only quick checks.
Now it seems to just have gone berserk, downloading the message header list (with the download bar moving in from the left) over and over again (also with the download bar moving in again) without interruption. It never stops to display the header list but starts building it again from scratch with every new download. That way, what used to be my "lifeline" into my various email accounts has become completely useless to me.
Any idea?

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Post by Rdsok » Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:45 pm

I already provided what I thought would verify if it is downloading emails or not... you need a util to monitor TCP/IP traffic so you can verify if what you suspect is true or not...

I guess you could also just re-install fresh and re-setup PoptrayU to see what happens... but you may still need to monitor the TCP/IP traffic to know for certain what is going on...

I may point out that I'm not much for exaggeration... downloading the emails again vs the quick check doesn't make the program completely useless since it still provides the exact same info... I also suspect you can't find another email checker with the same feature set... but feel free to try if you feel you must.

JP Kunze
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Post by JP Kunze » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:05 pm

I don't know why exactly, but upgrading to PopTrayU did the trick. Thanks for your time and patience anyway!

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