For Renier

General discussion about PopTray. You love it? You hate it? Talk about it here.

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anagoge
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For Renier

Post by anagoge » Tue Apr 27, 2004 3:55 am

Hi Renier, I've just been viewing your contact information and it says that you no longer post it. However, I have something you may like to view. If you wish to find out what, email me possiblydangerous@hotmail.com

Don't worry, it's nothing bad. Infact, you may like it a lot.

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ComputerBob
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Post by ComputerBob » Tue Apr 27, 2004 6:02 pm

Hmmm...

Brand new user.

Their very first post.

From a disturbing Hotmail address.

Wants you to "view something."

Sure, that sounds safe to me. :lol:
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Post by anagoge » Tue Apr 27, 2004 6:38 pm

It's just a html page, nothing scary. My name is Neil Martin. I have something I'd like to show Renier. The reason why I don't post it on here is because I'd like him to see it first, before he decides whether he'd like to act on it or not. It's just a small offer that I wish to put to him.

Oh, and how on earth can you form any opinions about me from my email address? That's just a little irrational.

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ComputerBob
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Post by ComputerBob » Tue Apr 27, 2004 7:17 pm

Why don't you just send Renier a PM, instead of posting your message publicly?

People form opinions about each other all the time. You chose to create an ominous-sounding email address at a generic email provider, and then use it in your mysterious, "possibly dangerous" proposal to Renier, which was also the very first message that you ever posted on these forums.

I hope you understand that, like it or not, in this age of spammers, scammers, hackers, crackers, script kiddies, email harvesters, viruses, worms, distributed denial of service attacks, and malicious Web sites, it is perfectly normal for intelligent people to form opinions about others from their behavior. :lol:
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Post by anagoge » Tue Apr 27, 2004 9:49 pm

I shall send him a PM then. I didn't think of doing that.

As for the generic email provider, I don't really see how that's here or there. Hotmail is a good place to send and recieve my emails and it ties in nicely with MSN. So I use it.

Like I said, forming an opinion that someone might be possibly dangerous because they have their email as that is a bit silly. If I had my email as 'reallyniceguy' or something, would it really make any difference? No.

"perfectly normal for intelligent people to form opinions about others from their behavior."

But my behaviour has been nothing but courteous.

Anyway, whoever moderates this board, I think you should delete this thread. I'll send Renier the advised PM.

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Post by Guest » Tue Apr 27, 2004 10:12 pm

Touchy, touchy. :lol:

You're creating straw man arguments. I never said that your email address by itself was enough reason for intelligent people to be wary of you. I said that the combination of all the things that you did made me suspicious. If a stranger and first-time poster on a public forum doing those sorts of things doesn't make you wary of someone, then that's your choice, but some of us choose to be more careful.

And you should be aware that, although your forum registration here was accepted, many online forums refuse to accept registrations from users with email accounts from generic providers like Hotmail, MyRealBox, etc. -- it's so easy to sign up for multiple accounts at those places that they've become "throw away" email accounts for all sorts of troublemakers. :lol:

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Post by Rdsok » Wed Apr 28, 2004 3:35 am

anagoge,

I understand you may simply be naive about the nature of the various ways that the internet has been used to exploit (pun intended) its users but ComputerBob gave you very some good and valid reasons that someone should be wary of your posting. If you're still not convinced, I would suggest that you do a simple web search and do little bit of reading on the subject. Simply go to www.google.com and search on 'html page exploits' to see a few examples. I must warn you, some of the returned results may try to show you first hand what can happen.

As a first time poster we must be a little bit cautious just as you would to any stranger you may have just met. That doesn't make you or the stranger a bad guy, just an unknown.

As to your email address you gave, I myself have a hotmail( actually a msn.com address to be specific) account that I use, but as CB stated these email addresses are easy to obtain. The possiblydangerous part is something that a hacker, cracker, or script kiddy would be likely to have, again that isn't to say you are one, just that it fits the profile. If you don't want to be profiled that way, I'd suggest getting an email address that isn't 'possibly dangerous' that way. :D (sorry couldn't help the pun there either)

I would also caution you against publicly (ie on the internet) posting your real name and a valid email address Neil. If for no other reason, just so the spammers out there (I hate them myself) don't get any more help in their pursuits.

I don't believe CB was, and I know I'm not trying to pick on or persecute you. We both have a good understanding of computer security and have had a lot of experience in practicing 'safe hex'. :wink:

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Post by ComputerBob » Wed Apr 28, 2004 4:35 am

Rdsok wrote:....We both have a good understanding of computer security and have had a lot of experience in practicing 'safe hex'. :wink:
Yup, I always make my CDs wear protective cases. :lol:
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Renier
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Post by Renier » Wed Apr 28, 2004 10:08 am

Just to confirm that there is nothing malicious in Neil's link.

Neil, I'm sure you can publish your link here for public opinion too (if you want).

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Post by anagoge » Wed Apr 28, 2004 2:35 pm

It was simply an offer from me to Renier to redesign his website free and make it look more appealing. I didn't want to post it publicy, since I wanted him to see it first.

Since I've now spoken to Renier, here's the link for the redesign: http://www.openme.co.uk/poptray/poptray.html

Please note that the links don't work, as I only designed the first page of it to show Renier.

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homaquebec
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Post by homaquebec » Wed Apr 28, 2004 5:26 pm

Your presentation is very interesting. The most imporant aspect is that is clear, understandable.

But, it is pretty "cold". I suggest you to use warmer colors.

And, if the project goes further, I suggest to add a page titled "How to set up PopTray" and an other titled "How to set up the PopTray Hotmail Plug-in".

Bravo! Nice contribution to PopTray community.

Eventually, a link from the forum should bring visitors to PopTray home site.

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ComputerBob
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Post by ComputerBob » Wed Apr 28, 2004 5:40 pm

I think it was very nice of you to do that work. :wink:

However, I would like the look better with different colors, and with dark text on a light background instead of white text on a dark background. And, although I think the large, upper-left-corner "P" is clever, I don't think it shows up very well, and I don't like the way its descender wastes an entire column of space all the way down the page.

Unfortunately, from the viewpoints of accessibility and compliance with current Web coding standards, I think it is very poor. All of the information that should be in h1 tags is instead displayed as non-searchable, non-accessible graphics, and the whole page is uses a big, inaccessible table for layout instead of using CSS.

If you know how to use CSS, I recommend that you use it to format as much information as possible, instead of displaying that information in graphics and in a table.
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AhmadMostafa
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Post by AhmadMostafa » Wed Apr 28, 2004 6:15 pm

looks very nice 8)

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Rdsok
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Post by Rdsok » Wed Apr 28, 2004 6:55 pm

I think the site looks nice. I also didn't care for the color that much but that is such a personal preference item I wouldn't mention it in particular. (Though I guess I just did :oops: ). I would say though, that it should have more colors than just the 2 chosen, ie background foreground, to make it more interesting. I also agree with CB in that CSS would be the preferred way that I would end up with but would like to point out that when I 'mock up' a site I still use the old 'table and chairs' style myself and then migrate that to a CSS design later after I quit making major changes to it. Besides the fact that my old habits die hard, the tables method still has advantages for backwards compatibility that CSS doesn't have yet. I can't tell you how many Doctors and Lawyers I seen still using an old Netscape 4.x version.

Either way, kudo's should go to anagoge (Neil) for what he's done. It's a sharp looking design all around.

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quosego
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Post by quosego » Wed Apr 28, 2004 7:35 pm

Hi Neil, welcome to this forum.

Nice design suggestion.

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Post by ilNebbioso » Thu Apr 29, 2004 9:51 am

Apart the suggestions given by ComputerBob regarding colors and the "p", it's a nice proposal!!!

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Renier
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Post by Renier » Thu Apr 29, 2004 10:16 am

I must be biased then, since it seems I'm the only guy that doesn't like it.

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vitoco
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Post by vitoco » Thu Apr 29, 2004 1:56 pm

I agree with Renier... :?

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Rdsok
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Post by Rdsok » Thu Apr 29, 2004 6:24 pm

Renier, if you don't like it that should settle the issue once and for all. Ultimately it should be up to you, as to the rest of our opinions, that's all they are, just our opinions.

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ComputerBob
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Post by ComputerBob » Thu Apr 29, 2004 6:35 pm

Rdsok wrote:Renier, if you don't like it that should settle the issue once and for all. Ultimately it should be up to you, as to the rest of our opinions, that's all they are, just our opinions.
Of course we all know that without anyone having to say it. :lol:
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