Poptray + K9 (Bayesian Anti-Spam)

General discussion about PopTray. You love it? You hate it? Talk about it here.

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KY Dave
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Post by KY Dave » Thu Aug 14, 2003 1:07 am

pviton wrote:With both K9 and poptray running, I send myself an email, subject = test.

I then ask PopTray to check my account. It does so, and retrieves the test message.

However, in k9 : the log shows that the mail was checked, and in the log everything seems OK. However, in none of k9's other tabs (Recent Emails, Storage Area, Server Check) nothing appears. Should it??? Also, in k9's Statistics section, everything's zero.
You were probably experiencing nothing showing up due to the fact your email address on the test email was in the "whitelist".

The only time emails in the whitelist show up is if you PREVIEW them or actually download them in your email client.

Now as you get email, just click the RECENT EMAIL tab and reclassify any that need to be changed. K9 will learn, and not make the same mistake again.

I suggest a rule in PopTray to mark any email with 'spam' in the subject as SPAM. This will let you have a final look before you click the 'DELETE SPAM' button to get rid of the junk. After a while, when you have trained K9 and trust it's decisions you can change the rule to DELETE and not have the spam problem any more.

Glad you were able to get it going!

KY Dave

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Post by pviton » Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:20 pm

I'd like to resuscitate my previous question: I did get 1 message in k9's input; but only one. This morning I have about 7 emails, none of which are on my PopTray whitelist, but in k9 I have nothing. The k9 log shows the mail being received, but not processed. It's evidently a k9 issue - I must have disabled something - can anyone guess what?

On whitelists in general: are you sure that this is correct? The one mail I did have processed in K9 was on my whitelist. My understanding is that PopTray requests the mail; and the request is shunted through K9, so that K9 should in principle see everything. (Maybe I've misunderstood your point).

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Post by KY Dave » Thu Aug 14, 2003 5:55 pm

This might 'fix' your problem.

In K9 click the ADVANCED TAB, and check the box for "Add spam email received via "Top" to Recent"

This will let you see the spam in the Recent Emails Tab window.
pviton wrote: On whitelists in general: are you sure that this is correct? The one mail I did have processed in K9 was on my whitelist. My understanding is that PopTray requests the mail; and the request is shunted through K9, so that K9 should in principle see everything. (Maybe I've misunderstood your point).
Let me say, I'm not sure.

But from what I've seen, K9 doesn't filter anything on it's whitelist and it won't show up in K9 unless you PREVIEW in PopTray or download the email in your email client.
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Post by blazkowitz » Thu Aug 14, 2003 8:07 pm

KY Dave, thanx for your step-by-step instructions how to setup PopTray with K9. I followed them, but I am still having problems described in my previous posts.

I think, it could be problem with my ISP proxy/firewall or with my email account. Simply the option 'Translate TOP n into RETR' isn't working'...

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Post by pviton » Fri Aug 15, 2003 3:50 pm

Clarification re whitelist: I have no whitelist defined in K9, only in PopTray. So I expect that we're actually in agreement on this point.

I'm still getting nothing in K9, though from the log, it is retrieving and sending on all mails requested by PopTray. I set up a K9 server and tried it out: this worked perfectly, and the mail I retrieved was visible in K9. So I expect that somehow the problem lies with PopTray's request: K9 seems to be interpreting it as a pass-through request, or perhaps, the TOP command isn't working properly, and K9 isn't doing anything because it needs to see the body of the message, but doesn't.

Might the problem be that PopTray needs to have the Preview Top Lines set to something reasonable? Would someone who's managed to get the two working toether be kind enough to post a complete listing of every setting they've got under Gneral Options and Advanced Options? Maybe there's some subtlety I'm missing. And by the way, PoPTray 3.0 Beta 9, K9 1.11, Win XP home.

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Post by Renier » Fri Aug 15, 2003 4:18 pm

If you look in the K9 development history you'll see that version 1.06 had the following change:
Translating "TOP" commands to "RETR" shouldn't have been adding messages to Recent Emails list.
In version 1.08 he's added an option
- Added option to allow spam emails retrieved with a fake "TOP" to be added to the Recent Emails window.
but this seems to only show spam mails and not all emails in the recent email list.

That is the reason that I'm still using K9 1.05.

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Post by pviton » Fri Aug 15, 2003 4:32 pm

Renier, thanks! That could well be the answer. So: does anyone have a copy of K9 v 1.05 that they'd be willing to post/send? On the K9 site, all the old versions appear to link to the same place, which permits one to obtain only the current version. (If this is wrong, could someone point me to a place where I could obtain v 1.05?)

Thanks again!

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Post by pviton » Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:41 pm

Renier kindly sent me a copy of K-1.05, which I installed; and I can report that I'm now seeing stuff in K9's Recent Emails tab. So that was the answer - use the older version of K9. I post this just in case anyone else has a similar problem.

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Post by inf » Sun Aug 17, 2003 1:40 am

There is something wrong with that fake RETR command ! Take a look at the communication between the K9 and the mail server (i did the log using my own utility, thats why it's format looks a little strange, sorry)

Code: Select all

[02:22:43] TX: USER boris_l$0D$0A
[02:22:43] RX: +OK boris_l nice to hear from you - password required$0D$0A
[02:22:43] TX: PASS <yea,right,like i was going to keep it here>$0D$0A
[02:22:43] RX: +OK boris_l has 1 mail messages$0D$0A
[02:22:43] TX: STAT$0D$0A
[02:22:43] RX: +OK 1 806$0D$0A
[02:22:43] TX: RETR 1$00$0D$0A
This log is an example of the fake "TOP n 0" being replaced by RETR.
Notice that there is a 0 after the RETR command !!! Most servers probably just accept that 0 as an end of line, so it works normaly, but not this one. After that RETR command everything is just stuck untill it times out.

Can someone pls forward this to the author of the K9, i cant find any bug report forum on his site, so i cant do it myself.
10x

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Post by KY Dave » Sun Aug 17, 2003 2:24 am

inf wrote:There is something wrong with that fake RETR command !
Can someone pls forward this to the author of the K9, i cant find any bug report forum on his site, so i cant do it myself.
10x
Here is an email address for the programmer.

robin@keir.net <robin@keir.net>

It is posted on his ABOUT PAGE.
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inf
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Post by inf » Sun Aug 17, 2003 2:34 am

10x, i've just sent the report

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Post by quosego » Sun Aug 17, 2003 11:53 am

In the newsgroup <grc.spam> on <news.grc.com> all kinds of spam solutions are discussed, including K9.
The author Robin Keir also partcipates there. Although it is not a community like the PT forum i think it is a good place of to share problems with ohter K9 users and give feedback to the author.

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Post by bbfi » Mon Aug 18, 2003 1:26 am

Hi, this is my first post here. You have a real good forum and Pop Tray is great. :lol:
I have multiple email accounts on different servers, while i got this exact behaviour on one of them, while fake TOP n 0 still works well on the other. There was no big msgs on the server, the poptray just sits there and waits until it times-out, while the last line in K9 log when it happens (before the timeout) is the TOP n 0 line.
I had the same problem. :( Couldn't get K9 to work correctly with Pop Tray and one of my accounts. After viewing the forum and trying out different things, I decided to check out SpamPal. The new version 1.5 supports Pop3, IMAP4 and SMTP connections, DNSBL querying, and allows users to use different plugins including Bayesian filtering, RegExFilter, UrlBody filtering, bad words, good words, and white and black lists.

I'm not trying to put K9 down (it is my second choice) but with the problem with fake TOP n 0 and some email accounts, I instead recommend SpamPal 1.5 (I have tried just about every freeware spam checker there is) and believe it to be the best. Out of hundreds of emails (since 8/15/03), it has only made about 10 mistakes which are now corrected for and with Bayesian it is getting smarter all the time. :lol:

The best part is that it does everything that K9 does and more and it works perfect with Pop Tray with no hiccups or hitches. I also have it configured to use avast! 4.0 antivirus checker so the emails are checked for spam and viruses at the same time. The configuration was hard to set up, so if anyone wants to try using Pop Tray, SpamPal and avast!, let me know and I'll post the configuration info for each software application here. :wink:
WinXP Home (5.1.2600) SP1 - IE Shell 6.0.2800.1106
Pentium 4 - 1.5 GHz - 512MB RAM
True Launch Bar 2.2.0.15 - Firefox 0.8 Browser - Thunderbird 0.5 Email
PopTray 3.1 - SpamPal 1.52 - Avast 4.1 - Kerio Firewall 4.0.13

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inf
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Post by inf » Mon Aug 18, 2003 11:11 am

Just noticed that there is a new version of K9 out. And the bug i've mentioned was neither fixed neither mentioned in known issues and problems :-(

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Post by Renier » Mon Aug 25, 2003 11:53 am

PopTray 3.0 (beta 10) now has an advanced option to retrieve the message body while checking for new mail. This might work better with Bayesian checkers, because the TOP conversion is not needed then. Only try it is you have a fast connection though, and I won't recommend using it with quick-checking switched off. If you limit the download to a number of lines, then it will still use the TOP command.

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Post by Renier » Mon Sep 01, 2003 5:40 pm

With the new "Only download if size is less than" get body option in PopTray 3.0 (beta 11), I can now download the complete messages on small messages, and the latest K9 works fine with it (without the translate TOP option). Most spam is smallish messages anyway.

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Post by Guest » Mon Sep 08, 2003 1:18 pm

Thanks for the tip about message body :) I originally tried to use the option "Add the following email header line: X-Text-Classification: spam", and added a rule in Poptray to mark such emails as spam. But K9 would not add this line in the header. Strange. So it is back to using the end of subject marker for now.

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Post by Khurram » Mon Sep 08, 2003 1:24 pm

Oops, I forgot to log in first :oops: Sorry

=TOM=

Post by =TOM= » Tue Sep 23, 2003 12:30 pm

pviton wrote:Strange - it seems to be working now (maybe it took a while to think
about it?) - and now I do in fact see the emails in K9's Recent Emails tray.

So please ignore my last posting - and thanks again for the setup instructions - very clear.
Well, I have the same problem as you had. But unfortunately, my program did not think for a while like yours.

I combined PT and K9 as described above. Even though spams are marked with [spam], they don't appear in the field "Recent Mails" in K9 and do not show up in the statistics. Does anyone have an idea what's wrong here? I mean, K9 *does* check the mails and mark them as spam - but they just don't appear in the "recent mail" window.

I would appreciate any ideas.

Thx,
=TOM=

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Post by Renier » Tue Sep 23, 2003 12:35 pm

Setting Poptray to download the body instead of using K9's translate TOP option, works for me.

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