3.2beta5 Canvas does not allow drawing

Found a serious/minor bug in PopTray? Tell me about it.

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ilNebbioso
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3.2beta5 Canvas does not allow drawing

Post by ilNebbioso » Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:46 pm

Spam is always an hard fight, I well know.

This is a problem I encourer with PT each time I have to delete a lot of spam (i.e. when I come back from holidays, a long week end...).

As I told in the past, I have a large amount of account checked by PT, more than 30.

After two weeks of joliday I have some accounts with 2900, 1250, 450, 350 spam messages. PT checked for all of them without problems after a boot without any problem.

So, I succesfully marked for deletion 2900 mails, but when I hit the DEL key to mark the others 1250 messages for deletion, it seems that PT cannot go on.

The message I receive is "Canvas does not allow drawing". The tray icon is missing (the place for the icon is there, but the icon is missing). All the PT window has got trouble (frames, scrollbar, icons, buttons are missing).

Then I hit the OK button on the error message window. Then I move the mouse to another tab, but when the mouse reach the other tab, the message appears again.

The only way to solve is to restart PT and to delete the messages account by account.

The F5 key does not work ("Invalid Handle") and then "Not enough memory" or "Out of system resources".

On this state PT uses 0% of CPU and 15MB of memory. Other apps works fine.

When I close PT Windows tells me for an Application Error. Then last messagebox is "Runtime error 216 at 00403A1E".
I don't know if I'm a very special (and desperate!) case, but I hope this could help.

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Post by KY Dave » Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:57 am

ilNebbioso,

Do you think it's a limit of PT or your system?
What version of Windows are you using and how much memory does your PC have installed?

My suggestion would be to check a single account and delete the messages on those accounts before moving on to the next account.

Maybe Renier will have a better suggestion or answer.
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Post by ilNebbioso » Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:08 am

Hi, KY Dave.
As ever, I forgot to write down just "few" important things... :oops:

My box is an Asus Noteboook, Centrino 2Ghz with 1Gb RAM and 100GB HD. Win Xp Media Center Edition (full update) is the OS.

Yes, I think it's a PT trouble, also because other apps doesn't suffer any trouble.

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Post by ilNebbioso » Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:34 pm

Addendum.

It just happen again. But, this time, I'm not having a large amount of messages ("just" about 500 in total)

The problem appeared while fastly deleting some messages with the keyboard (DEL - ENTER) while hitting on another tab with the mouse. I'll try to investigate it because it seems the problem appears while deleting messages.

I also noticed I have the "minimize" button present at the high-left corner... :!: Moving to the desktop it desappeared.

The final error message was the same: "Runtime error 216 at 00403A1E".

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Post by Rdsok » Fri Sep 01, 2006 5:31 am

I can confirm this problem with the latest RC also. I'm using Poptray to clean out a friends email account of over 67000 emails... they forgot to turn back off.. leave on server and have a couple yrs worth.

I'm on XP Pro SP2 fully updated also.

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Post by DriverOp » Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:09 am

I have encountered the same problem, I mean, it apears a box with the message "Canvas does not allow drawing". Clicking on Ok botton makes my system goes crazy in its graphical interface.

I run a PIV 2.2 Ghz with 256 Mb RAM and Win98SE.

This error raises randomly, having mails on my accounts or not.

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Post by ilNebbioso » Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:42 am

Nice thing: they're months I have to post the problem, but I was unsure it was only mine....

Renier, any idea to help you?

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Post by Renier » Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:45 pm

I guess I ill have to test with way higher number of emails.

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Post by Rdsok » Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:20 pm

It was intermittant as to when I saw the error and since it doesn't show how many email headers were read when it happens, all I can give is an approximation on the number of emails it would take to cause the issue it seemed to happen between 500-1000 emails.

I also only put up with it for about a dozen times before I got out my older version of Poptray ( 3.1 ) that I had saved in a backup and it didn't have the error.

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Post by vitoco » Sat Sep 02, 2006 12:54 am

I'm not getting the error (yet), but I can see how a small black rectangle, with the size of about a text-only button from the toolbar, appears randomly very close of it at the right of PT's window, just over another window while checking one account using that button.

Probably, the error popups when PT window is opened at the very right of the screen... :o

The mailbox has 5 mails only, and PT is using less than 6MiB of my 1GiB RAM WinXP.

I hope this helps...

++V

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Post by ilNebbioso » Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:38 pm

An update of my case: it just happened again on my box.

But, this time I also have a new error:
"Error reading btn.OK.Glyph.Data: System Error. Code: 87 Invalid Parameter".

Please note that the "Invalid Parameter" string was wrote on my language, not in English.

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Post by NO CARRIER » Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:22 am

Hello after a long time. :-)

The same problem happens here. 300 messages are just enough to get "Canvas does not allow drawing". After restarting, PT successfuly deletes the messages.

Any suggestions?

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The error persists... regardless of Windows version

Post by HarpGuy » Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:36 am

THIS POST APPLIES TO: The "finished" (as opposed to any beta) version of PopTray 3.2 which is downloadable as of this writing. Other versions may or may not also exhibit what is described herein, but I'm just writing, here, about the "finished" 3.2 version available for download as of 12/7/2006.

For software testing purposes, I have machines running Windows versions back to Windows 95B (the most stable of the Win95 versions). I even have an old 200 MHz machine that runs primarily MS-DOS 6.22 but can also load old Windows 3.1... though I haven't used it for anything but DOS stuff for almost as long as I can remember.

The DOS/Win3.1 machine has 32 MB of RAM in it; the Win95B machine 128 MB of RAM; and all others (except for the one described in the next paragraph) from 256 MB to 512MB or 1 GB.

I have one machine (which I use to run a high-end digitally-sampled pipe organ program, and so it's really loaded) that has dual processors, the 64-bit version of Windows XP Pro, and 8 GB of RAM (soon to be upgraded).

TSRs (some of which display as icons in the System Tray, and some of which do not) are kept to an absolute minimum on all machines because, as I think (or at least hope) everyone knows, the more crap you've got running in memory, the more unstable is Windows. Those TSRs that are running are well-tested and known to be stable and trouble-free. In the case of the Win9x machines (which are well-known for poor memory management), the old, highly reliable and stable "RamBooster" memory manager sits in the System Tray and keeps memory well-managed. NT-based Windows versions (i.e., WinNT4, Win2K, WinXP) all manage memory sufficient well that such products as RamBooster are not necessary.

All Windows versions in my test base have every last service pack, security patch, and/or OS upgrade installed. In other words, for their respective versions, they're as up-to-date as said versions can possibly be (which, in the case of the Win95 machine, is now a real trick since many of those old patches and upgrades are, one-by-one, disappearing even from the Microsoft web site... but I digress).

Except for the Windows 3.1 machine (obviously), I've now tested PopTray on all Windows versions from Win95B thru XP-Pro, and I have been able to observe the
  • Canvas does not allow drawing
error on every last one of them... though differently, at times, depending on the Windows version and precisely what's going on at the moment.

In addition to everything else that others have described in this thread (the vast majority of which I've observed myself in my own testing), in many instances the problem seems connected to mouse movement.

In that regard, assuming PopTray is otherwise idle, when the error message pops up, and when the user clears said pop-up, it will pop up again and again even if the user doesn't move the mouse because, clearly, several error pop-ups are cached in memory from however many mouse movements triggered errors during the milliseconds between the first mouse movement that triggered the first error, and the first occurance of the first error's pop-up error notification.

Usually, the first occurance of the pop-up causes all mouse movement to stop so the user can read the error message; so, therefore, during said reading, no new error messages are cached (unless, of course, the user fiddles with the mouse while s/he's reading).

Then, the mouse movement to hover the mouse pointer over the button that closes the error message causes yet another error (or two or three) to cache. But, once the pointer is at that point on the screen where it can click on the button that closes the error notification, and if the user just leaves it there (i.e., doesn't move the mouse) as all subsequent cached error messages keep popping-up after each time the button to close them is clicked-on, then the last cached error message will finally pop-up and, upon its closing, there will, as long as the mouse is not moved again, be no further errors.

However, if the user moves the mouse for any reason, a new error message pops-up. Unless the mouse software has a feature which auto-moves the mouse pointer so that it's already hovering over the error message's close button, then moving the mouse to said button will cause yet another error which will pop-up as soon as the current pop-up is closed. But then, because the mouse will already be in the right place to close the next pop-up, and as long as there is no mouse movement when that pop-up is closed, the error messages will, again, stop.

And this can all be repeated with reliability... so, clearly, mouse movement is, at the very least, one huge factor.

Once the "Canvas does not allow drawing" error pop-up occurs, the only way out is to somehow close PopTray altogether (not send it to the system tray, but actually close it completely). Since mouse movement triggers more errors, any program closure method which involves mouse movement will cause more error pop-ups. However, using a completely-keyboard-keystroke method of closing PopTray (such as pressing the Alt-F4 keyboard keystroke combination while the PopTray window is in focus will usually work well. Using the Alt-Tab keystroke combination to make PopTray (and its error dialog) so they're no longer in focus, and then using the Ctrl-Alt-Del keystroke combination to pop-up the task manager, then highlighting PopTray and clicking on "End Task" can also successfully get PopTray closed without incurring additional error messages.

Regardless how PopTray is finally completely closed once the "Canvas does not allow drawing" error dialog as begun to appear (and, again, by "closed," I mean actually closed, and not merely minimized to the System Tray), in many cases, whenever PopTray finally actually closes, the user gets a runtime error.

Though several different runtime error message may be observed, the most common one that I tend to see is:
  • Runtime error 216 at...
and then it gives the location in HEX. In many cases, on at least the two older machines that are Win9x, said location is often (but not always) "00403A1E", but it varies. In NT-based versions of Windows (i.e., NT4 thru XP), the locations are pretty much all over the place.

Occasionally -- especially on the Win9x machines -- trying to close PopTray by any means (but especially if the Ctrl-Alt-Del method is used) once the "Canvas does not allow drawing" error pop-up has presented causes the so-called "blue screen of death", always with an error code indicating a software (rather than a hardware) error. At that point, of course, one must do a hard reset and start Windows (and, preferably, the machine itself) all over again.

When the "blue screen of death" does not occur, simply getting PopTray completely closed (and I mean closed, not merely minimized to the System Tray), and then re-launching it, will usually make it behave itself for a while. But clearly PopTray is leaving a little piece of itself in memory (or is, at least, leaving an unrefillable hole in memory) after is is merely closed and then re-launched -- at least on the Win9x machines -- because merely closing and then re-launching PopTray in the same Windows session (as opposed to re-starting Windows and/or the machine altogether) causes PopTray to err again much sooner than if Windows itself is restarted first, and then PopTray is launched. In other words, a true, hardware-level RAM flush (which only a hard machine restart can truly provide, but which sometimes just restarting Windows can sufficiently provide) makes PopTray, upon re-launching, behave itself the longest.

In my opinion, this troublesome and unexpecteed error makes version 3.2 (not just the beta version currently in development, but also the current "finished" 3.2 version) sufficiently unstable that I, for one, intend to downgrade back to the last downloadable 3.1 version on at least the XP machines that I use every day at home and at the office, and on one Win98SE machine that I use at a non-profit agency where I'm doing some pro-bono work. Thankfully, I've not advised any clients to begin using the 3.2 version... and since they all trust me and actually listen to me, I'm sure none of them will until I say it's okay.

I hope that this error can be resolved quickly and that a new version of 3.2, sans this problem, can be made downloadable soon. It is terribly annoying... and is a huge disappointment because I think most people hope/assume that new versions of any software will always at least do everthing the old versions would do without error; and that if errors in new versions do occur, said errors will tend to be tied to (or solely the result of) one's use of *NEW* features. In other words, I would have thought (or at least would have hoped... and I think it's reasonable for me to have expected) that as long as I didn't avail myself of any new 3.2 features, then the software certainly should have worked as well as did the 3.1 version.

By the way... the last time I took such pains to detail a problem here in a way that I believed (or at least hoped) PopTray's author would, as a programmer, most appreciate, my efforts were met by (and I was forced to endure the stress of responding to) posts from an overzealous (and, in my opinion, arrogant and insecure) admin here trying to first challange me, inexplicably; and then to get me to adopt his wrong-headed "here's the workaround" approach. A bug is a bug. Workarounds are never the appropriate response to bugs... except, possibly, just to "make do" until the bug can be fixed with due and appropriate haste, and an updated version can be downloaded and installed; and, personally, I don't like workarounds even then.

But, as with the last time I came here to report a bug, I didn't come here today asking for help to make my copy of PopTray work until said bug can be fixed. I'll worry about that sort of thing myself, thankyouverymuch.

Rather, I came here, as I came here before, simply to report the bug, and that's it (and, hopefully, to do so in a way, because of my own program design and troubleshooting experience, that PopTray's author might find useful, one programmer to another). PopTray's author will, I presume (and hope), read this posting and do with it whatever he likes... which is all I came here to accomplish... nothing -- and I mean nothing -- more.

My posting, here, is what it is... take it or leave it. Therefore, I'll respectfully (as I can muster) thank the aforementioned admin (and he knows who he is) to please (and the operative word, here, is "please") just accept this posting as the simple attempt to help-out that it is...

...and to otherwise just keep his nose out of it and not regale me, here, with challenges and/or workarounds.

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Post by Rdsok » Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:05 am

@HarpGuy

[edited by KY Dave] whew

You certainly have no right to condemn a person for suggesting possible workarounds to address an issue as you did so rudely in this last post. He is trying to help in the best way he knows and anyone saying that he isn't simply does not know what they are talking about or at least doesn't have the complete story.

The author will no doubt address this issue as soon as he has time to and as he has done in the past for other issues that have shown themselves... BUT he doesn't make a living from Poptray and I doubt very much that you or your clients have even donated anything to him or at least donate some time to try to assist other users on the forum.

In the future, if someone is trying to give you alternate methods to work around an issue and maybe even mention to the the proper way to use a service such as a POP3 email account... you should at least have the decency to thank them for their time. After all they are trying to help and all you can do is criticize them for this... what a pity.

If a person provides you a product for FREE and another volunteer's their time to try an help you for FREE... the least you can do is thank them for their effort .... Reporting an issue or just confirming one is one thing... but you have stepped over the line and are just being flat out rude and ungrateful for what others have done.

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Post by Renier » Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:28 am

HarpGuy, do you also have many emails in your mailbox like the other people in this thread mentioned?

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Post by HarpGuy » Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:51 am

Rdsok wrote:@HarpGuy

[edited by KY Dave] whew

You certainly have no right to condemn a person for suggesting possible workarounds to address an issue as you did so rudely in this last post. He is trying...
---- SNIP, FOR BREVITY ----
Please don't presume to tell me what are my rights, sir. You don't know me well enough.

And please don't foist off onto me your projected tale of open source programmer woe, and try to make me feel lucky that the software is free. Open source programmers make the decision to distribute their product they way they do with no guns pointed at their heads. Plus, for many of them, the open source work subsequently leads to lucrative commercial products, enterprises or other kinds of profitable programming and/or business opportunities, both related as well as unrelated to their open source work.

Generally, with respect to the guilt you're obviously hoping I'll feel, know this: I'm not young. I've been writing software for longer, I suspect, than you've even been alive. Back when I'll bet you were still pooping in your diapers -- or possibly before you were even a twinkle in your parents' eyes -- I was finding, on bulletin boards and in other places, seemingly no end of copies of my commercial software... pirated, reverse-engineered, hacked, cracked and otherwise ripped-off in one manner or another, thereby depriving me of untold revenues. That, my friend (and I use the term loosely), and not what you've read of my words here, is what truly ingrate behavior actually looks like. Try not to be confused.

Additionally, it is simply logical fallacy of the highest order for anyone to posit that a given product's being free therefore inherently deprives of those who benefit from it the right to criticize. That's just sloppy thinking.

But, in your case, your sloppy thinking is also misguided. My criticism was not aimed at PopTray's author, with whom I have no issues, and whose work on PopTray I both respect and admire. Had you read more carefully instead of jumping insensibly to the wrong person's defense -- and for the wrong reasons -- you would have realized that my comments had nothing to do with any part of the considerable contribution to the overall body of good open source software made by PopTray's author. And they had nothing to do with his generosity, either... nor did they fly in the face of it, or fundamentally disrespect it.

Rather, my comments were aimed at an individual who isn't even on PopTray's design team and who, therefore, has nothing to do with that part of things. They had to do with what he does here; and, more specifically, how badly he happened to do it in my particular case in an earlier thread. I get to disrespect that. That is my right.

So your basic premise that I am ungrateful, in addition to being fundamentally inaccurate, is also both misinformed and misplaced. Moreover, before you decided to recklessly lash out at me, perhaps you should have bothered to go find the offending thread to which my earlier comments here referred so you could see for yourself just how ridiculous and inappropriate it all was back then. As with most people who tend to thoughtlessly blurt-out your particular genre of scolding and moralistic criticism, you have awfully strong opinions for someone not fully advised in the premises. [edited by KY Dave]
Renier wrote:HarpGuy, do you also have many emails in your mailbox like the other people in this thread mentioned?
I'm having PopTray monitor six email accounts.

Three of them receive virtually no mail, and the few messages that are received by them are usually spam, so are auto-deleted by PopTray from their respective POP3 inboxes.

The fourth account gets perhaps an email message per day or less, nearly none of them spam. Those messages tend to sit in that account's POP3 inbox all month long and are typically only downloaded to a local hard drive (using a copy of FoxMail) perhaps once a month. So, all month long, PopTray "sees" and displays those 30 or fewer messages just sitting there in that POP3 inbox each time it checks all the email accounts.

The fifth account gets perhaps 50 messages per day, the vast majority of them spam, netting perhaps a message or two per day that are actually "keepers;" and those get downloaded from the POP3 server to a local hard drive using Outlook about once a day or so... usually whenever the sixth account's messages (as described in the next paragraph) are downloaded.

The sixth account is the main account, which receives upwards of 300 to maybe even 400 email messages per day, from one-third to maybe half of which, depending on the day, can be spam (netting maybe around 150 to 250 messages per day that are "keepers"). Since messages from that account are downloaded to a local hard drive using Outlook at least once a day -- usually twice or sometimes three times -- those 150 to 200 messages are rarely all in the POP3 inbox at the same time... though sometimes they are. On extremely rare occasions, up to three or four days worth of that account's email might be left to just sit there in the POP3 inbox waiting to be downloaded, and then, on the third or fourth day they'll all be downloaded to a local hard drive using Outlook. But, again, that's extaordinarily rare. For the most part, on most days, only 50 to 100 emails at a time tend to accumulate in that account's POP3 inbox before they're downloaded to a local hard drive using Outlook.

Hope that helps.

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Post by KY Dave » Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:35 pm

PopTray Forum Rules:
  • Be polite to your fellow PopTray Forum members. Any foul language or abusive posts will result in immediate deletion of the offending post and a warning to the poster. The members are donating their time, and as such, often have other things to do. No one is being paid to be here.
Two of the above posts have been edited to avoid conflicts on the forum and conform with the rules.

Users, please refrain from personal attacks!
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Post by Renier » Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:00 pm

So you are getting this error even when there are only a few messages in the main account?

The best I can find on the web seems to be that this error happens in problems with threads (which PopTray doesn't currently use), or when the canvas (possibly in this case the listview which shows the messages), run out of system resources.

Unfortunately/fortunately I've never had the error, so I can't re-create it.

PS. I'm not getting involved in the other issues in this thread. Please keep it about PopTray.

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Post by HarpGuy » Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:43 am

Sorry it took so long for me to get back to you. I've been swamped.
Renier wrote:So you are getting this error even when there are only a few messages in the main account?
Sometimes. Since my last posting, here, I've paid more attention. On a Win9x machine two days ago, it did it with 189 messages in the main account, 14 messages in one other account, and all others empty. This very day, today, on another Win9x machine (actually, an old Windows 95 machine), there were 74 messages in the main account, and 1 each in two other accounts. But on that one (the one today), the behavior was a little different. It popped-up the regular canvas error dialog, but this time, for some reason, after I cleared the error dialog, I was able to move the mouse fast enough to the "Send to Tray" button and click on it that I was able to minimize it off the screen before another error popped-up. However... and this was really interesting, once I did that, video memory (and I don't mean memory on the video card, I mean the part of main RAM devoted to video handling) was affected. All of a sudden, I noticed the system font at the tops of windows, or down in the system tray, or in the righthand panel of Windows explorer, and in other places, were all bold. When I tried to open the memory manager (RamBooster), it was not displaying properly (i.e., was exhibiting in a way that made it really obvious that there was a video memory glitch of some kind. Then, all of a sudden, an "Out of Reources" error message dialog popped-up, which I cleared. Oddly, though, the usual problems one sees after that did not also pop-up (i.e., such things as special symbol characters such as the little downarrow on the clickable part of a drop-down selector box becoming a digit "6" and other indicators that RAM is no longer properly handling display features. Such moments usually require a total reboot to clear things and get everything back where it belongs. But for some reason, that didn't happen.

Everything about this series of events, however, seems to point to something PopTray is now doing is fiddling with video memory handles... and I mean systemwide, not just when PopTray is displaying.
Renier wrote:The best I can find on the web seems to be that this error happens in problems with threads (which PopTray doesn't currently use), or when the canvas (possibly in this case the listview which shows the messages), run out of system resources.
There... that one. I think you're onto something with that one. Given the interesting way the error happened today, I'm thinking you may now be in the ballpark.
Renier wrote:Unfortunately/fortunately I've never had the error, so I can't re-create it.
It's happening a bit more on Win9x, it seems. I wonder if you would be seeing it more if you tested on a machine with Win9x loaded. Do you happen to have one you could devote to it? Or could you maybe set one up so it will dual-boot to either XP or 9x? (Just a thought.)

One thing I was wondering if you could do until this problem is resolved: Could you maybe put version 3.1 back up on the download page (just as an option; in addition to, but not in place of, version 3.2) so that those who are finding the canvas error in version 3.2 too irritating and frustrating can revert back to 3.1 until you've got it fixed? Thanks for considering that.

Hope that helps.

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Post by Renier » Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:21 am

I don't have a Win98 to test with. But Win98 sure has much more limited resources, so that could be causing it.

Strange that PopTray 3.1 works better. I don't see much that changed that could affect it.

Older versions of PopTray are available on the SourceForge page.

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